[NYTr] US Talks about "Change" - Cuba Works Toward It
 
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:24:39 -0600 (CST)


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Prgreso Weekly - Jan 10, 2008
http://progreso-weekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=294&Itemid=1

Dateline Havana

The process of changes is ongoing:

Francisco Aruca chats with Manuel Ramy

By Manuel Alberto Ramy

Excerpts from conversation broadcast Jan. 7, 2008, on the program
'Yesterday in Miami' hosted by Cuban-American journalist Francisco
Aruca.

Francisco Aruca: Dear friends, we are in Havana, and before leaving for
the airport I decided to hold a conversation with Radio Progreso
Alternativa's Havana correspondent, Manuel Ramy.

My first question, Ramy, is that the media and various persons in
Miami, myself included, have been emphasizing that there will be
changes in Cuba but that they will be made in a slow and careful
manner. I have said the changes will become important and that it is
very possible that they will begin in the economic field. Nevertheless,
there are people in Miami who say that reforms in Cuba are at a
standstill. Give us your opinion. 

Manuel Alberto Ramy: I insist on viewpoints that I have expressed
throughout [2007]. In the first place, reforms are inevitable, because
they are demanded by reality and the Cuban population. At issue are the
satisfaction of basic needs of the population, and the continuity of
the revolutionary process. And I would even say that the fate of the
Cuban nation is at issue.

Secondly, this is a dual process, that is, reforms that can create both
a new model of socialism and a transit toward a new generation of
leaders. This transit toward a new generation of national leaders is
also an inevitable fact and has been occurring for quite a while. The
generation that started the insurrection and has directed the
[revolutionary] process is relaying the baton to other runners.

Thirdly, this dual process of reforms and relays is occurring within
the system and is a factor of the pace, of the speed of the changes.
The purpose is to reform socialism, not to destroy it, and the process
is generated by established actors, structures and institutions that
have habits, customs, even faces. 

Aruca: Do you refer specifically to the Cuban government and Communist
Party? If these are factors that affect the pace of the changes, what
other factors exist?

Ramy: The sponsor of this process is the established power. It was RaC:l
Castro who, in his speech on July 26, 2007, announced that structural
changes were required -- nothing spectacular, he said -- as well as a
change in the mentality of behaving and acting.

The structural changes basically affect the economy, they make it
efficient. To do that, it is essential to foster consensus in the
circles of power and within a bureaucracy that -- as in any other
country -- exists through control. 

Aruca: Are you referring to possible bureaucracies within both the
government and the Party?

Ramy: Exactly, at all levels there is a strong bureaucracy here.

Aruca: In both institutions? 

Ramy: In both. There are changes that would mean a loss of control, and
therefore a loss of bureaucratic power. Bureaucracy lives from control;
that's its space of power.

The other factors of the speed in the implementation of measures come
from the population and the geopolitical context in which the country
is moving. I specifically refer to the policy toward Cuba maintained by
the United States for the past 50 years.

Aruca: Let's not mix the U.S. with the population just yet. You say
that one of the factors is the population. When you say 'population,'
do you mean the petition for reforms that the population considers to
be necessary?

Ramy: Exactly. It is the people and reality. The people are expressing
the reality, the needs that have been postponed for such a long time
and have not been solved. The intellectual world is working and
operating on that reality; in other words, in the interviews I've made
among people in the academic world, everybody insists on the same.
Therefore, the government and the Party have to respond, particularly
the Party, which is constitutionally defined as the vanguard of Cuban
society. And a vanguard that separates itself from its base becomes
isolated.

Aruca: A vanguard that does not respond to the needs that are clearly
posited by the people.

Ramy: Exactly. Therefore, if [the vanguard] becomes isolated, a split
occurs between the power and society. And at some later moment, society
will overwhelm the power. It's as simple as that.

Aruca: In other words, for that reason, the people are one of the
factors that determine -- and will end up determining -- the pace of
change. Now, you were going to talk about the U.S. policy as another
factor.

Ramy: Yes. But first let me say that the scenario of contradictions is
perfectly salvageable within the circles of power and the Communist
Party. And that's one of the factors at play.

The other factor is the people's pressure, from the standpoint of
undeniable realities. That's precisely one of the reasons for the
recent calls for open discussion, which have been held and have
resulted in more than a million proposals, according to RaC:l Castro.

Pressure from below, upward, supports the need for change and is a
factor that limits the power of bureaucracy. When we talk about
structures, we talk about forms, grades, levels of relationship. When
we talk about economic structures, we talk about other modes of
property that are perfectly compatible with socialism, or about the
role the market might play -- whether it would be central or peripheral
-- or about the degree of decentralization of sectors of the economy.

We must also realize that it is a question of calibrating the depth and
direction of the changes, so that they won't go beyond what's sensible.
For these reasons, we're looking at a process in stages that, in my
opinion, is being measured cautiously.

Washington certainly has an effect on this entire process. It has had
an effect in the entire 50-year history of the Cuban revolution, and
the role its pressures have played is very clear. First, at the level
of the people, [Washington's stance] is an element of cohesion, of
unity, that looms more serious than any everyday problems because it
represents the threat of imperialism, 90 miles away, and what it wants
to do is to destroy. You can gauge how much, or how little, the people
have achieved, but [Washington] is one of the factors that stimulate
cohesion. 

Aruca: The Cuban people do not want to run the risk of losing all the
good things that may have been achieved.

Ramy: I see no evidence that they're willing to do that, so far. On the
other hand, the role being played by U.S. foreign policy toward Cuba at
this point reinforces the position of the hardliners within the system.
They can argue that, because of the threats from the U.S., there can be
no opening.

However, that's only one side of the coin. The other is that the
pressures from the [Bush] administration also reinforce the need for
change [in Cuba], because this country cannot live constantly thinking
in a reality ...

Aruca: I conclude that, in your opinion, the people's need for better
answers to a series of basic problems is probably the most important
factor. U.S. foreign policy, too, plays an important role.

There was a time when more people would have said that the [Cuban]
government is using foreign policy as an excuse not to make internal
changes. But you say that the changes will come from domestic reasons,
whether or not the U.S. changes its policy. If U.S. policy becomes less
aggressive, the changes would take place with greater ease.

You say that, to a great degree, the needs of the people are the
primary factor that will explain how the changes will be made.

Ramy: You have understood me correctly. The needs of the people are the
primary and determining factor. If U.S. foreign policy limits the depth
and direction of the changes, that's something else. Within a context
of good relations, the Cuban government probably could take the steps
it wishes to take, something it wouldn't do within a context of a
permanent threat to the Cuban nation. The latter situation would hinder
the normal development of a process [of change].

The determining element is the reality and the national factors. The
United States is not going to move from where is sits, and the island
of Cuba is not going to move from its geographic location.

Aruca: You mentioned RaC:l's speech on July 26. But RaC:l also delivered
a speech on Dec. 28 at the National Assembly, and we all concluded that
it was a very important speech. Please comment on the importance of
that speech.

Ramy: RaC:l Castro has made four major speeches in little more than one
year. One was not given much publicity by the media because it was a
gathering with students at the University of Havana. Rather, it was a
charming and very pleasant conversation, according to students who were
there. He told anecdotes about his childhood, his youth and more or
less said that the time for generational change was upon us.

Then came the ground-breaking speech on July 26, which was a critical
(and self-critical) speech and served as the starter's pistol shot. He
spoke about structural changes and changes of mentality. As a result of
it, assemblies were held at all levels of Cuban society, with the
participation of more than 5 million citizens and the presentation of
more than one million proposals.

Then came his appearance Dec. 24 in Santiago de Cuba. As you know,
Fidel is a candidate to Parliament for Santiago de Cuba. In his name,
RaC:l toured the barrios, the municipalities, everywhere.

There, [RaC:l] said he gave Fidel Castro his speech of July 26 to read
in advance, and said that Fidel didn't correct a single comma. What did
he mean by that? That there are no discrepancies. In other words, Fidel
Castro is totally in accord with RaC:l Castro's statement of July 26.

Further, on Dec. 28, Fidel sent a letter to the National Assembly in
which he said RaC:l had shown him the speech he planned to deliver
there, and that [Fidel] had read it and was raising his hand to support
[RaC:l]. What does that mean? That there is a perfect agreement between
the two fundamental figures in government.

Some analysts see RaC:l as the more pragmatic person, perhaps more
willing to implement some measures swiftly, while Fidel is the more
cautious leader, even though he is strategically in agreement. But the
first thing I conclude from all this is that there is a consensus
between the two figures in power.

From RaC:l's speech, I would point to several aspects. First, that the
changes must be made by consensus (obviously, he refers to the deep
changes, to the structural changes) and that an integral vision is
needed to make those changes. That means that there is a project of
integral changes, because there are aspects that cannot be fixed with
one measure here, another measure there. That's the first point I would
stress.

Aruca: In other words, they are interrelated aspects.

Ramy: Exactly. But he did talk about measures that can already be
implemented. When he said that a series of laws were established in the
past, regulations that created problems instead of solving them, what
did he mean?

Aruca: If I remember correctly, he worded it in terms of prohibitions.
A great many prohibitions were enacted that, in turn, created
illegalities.

Ramy: One thing is clear. There are many prohibitions here, and many
things that are not tolerated, even though they are not prohibitions. I
think that many prohibitions and regulations have actually generated
the underground economy that exists today, and even participate in it.

I can't give you any figures, but I know that at the people's
assemblies, in the CDRs [Committees for the Defense of the Revolution],
in workplaces, people have made such proposals as allowing citizens to
sell their cars, sell their houses. A series of measures have been
proposed that -- if implemented -- would give a different style and
movement to the domestic scenario.

Aruca: Would you include prohibitions such as not permitting a Cuban
national to enter a certain place or eat in a certain [restaurant]? 

Ramy: Yes, and that's one of the issues that are being studied and
require a consensus. Not only a consensus at the levels of Party and
government but also among population sectors that are not a majority
but that wouldn't agree with some specific measures. What's being
sought is the widest consensus possible in whatever is done. For
example, there's the topic of migration.

I don't wish to minimize the impact of 2 million Cubans living outside
the island. I couldn't tell you the figure, but many Cuban families
have a relative living abroad. There is a complex migratory problem
that goes from "the white card" that enables a citizen to leave the
country to the rights of the C)migrC). I think that's also on the table
of topics to discuss.

The place where economic changes must begin is the sector of
agriculture. It is essential. Cuba must solve its food problem. If we
have achieved military security, as some say, we must achieve
alimentary security, because in military terms food is part of the rear
guard. Besides, it is one of the problems with the hardest impact.

The country is spending US$1.5 billion in foodstuffs -- practically
70-80 percent of the volume it consumes -- yet, the sectors of
agriculture that have given greater results have been the private
producers, the credit-and-service cooperatives, and the basic units of
production. They produce 60-65 percent of what we Cubans eat.

What does that mean? That the remaining 30 percent comes from state-run
farms -- from the state, which has more land than the private
producers. Therefore, I think that the policy being instituted (not
very publicly) is to distribute more land to the private farmers.

Aruca: To individual proprietors or families, and cooperatives?

Ramy: To both. Let me explain. The credit-and-service cooperatives own
land in which they freely share resources, land, machinery, etc., and
share the revenue. Some cooperatives make more than one million pesos
per year. The problem is that they need raw materials, they need to
spend their money. They don't want regulations from the Ministry of
Agriculture that only hamper an individual's productivity.

On the other hand, they must open spaces for certain levels of
consumption. I don't mean the farmer's productive consumption but his
enjoyment consumption, because the farmer may earn 800,000 pesos and
then, what can he do with that money? Will he bury it under a mango
tree, or hide it, because he cannot buy a car, he cannot go someplace
and stay in a hotel?

I think the turning point in the Cuban economy is the agriculture. The
nation's leaders are weighing the option to decentralize it, to form a
concept of agriculture in the municipality, to give autonomy to the
municipality to plan and develop the local agriculture. That's what
[the newspaper] Juventud Rebelde stated.

I think we must produce more, and to produce more we have to be more
liberal in the treatment of agricultural production and the farmer. And
we have to open space, so that the farmer can spend the money he makes.

That experience can then open spaces in the urban sector, service
cooperatives, laundries, industrial production, services that don't
exist or that exist only in convertible pesos. You cannot manage a
thermonuclear plant and at the same time manage an ice-cream cart. 

Aruca: I think you have touched on the topics that are the most
important. You have provided a viewpoint that I almost completely
share, although I shall reserve some comments for when I play this
recorded interview in Miami. Is there anything more you wish to say? 

Ramy: The process is ongoing, but it's ongoing from the institutional
point of view, because it comes from within the system. The system
needs to reform itself, although it mustn't do so at the expense of the
people's needs.

I think that we'll see some things happen in 2008. Maybe they won't be
the deepest and most integral measures ever -- because there must be a
consensus at Party, government and population levels -- but there will
be changes.

[Manuel Alberto Ramy is Havana bureau chief of Radio Progreso
Alternativa and editor of Progreso Semanal, the Spanish-language
version of Progreso Weekly. ]

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