dialog re/ documentaries Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:24:10 +0100 dialog re/ documentaries

Friends,

I moved the "Story of 911" over to Blogger, and included the length of each clip so that people will know how long it takes before clicking on it. Here's the new URL:
    http://rkmvids.blogspot.com/2007/07/story-of-911-in-nutshell_09.html

rkm

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From: "Joanna Santa Barbara" <>
To: <cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:32:33 -0400

HI Richard.

I liked this format. It helped me consolidate the logic of the argument in a way that often takes hard work after a film. I could think it through at my own pace, as I gathered the evidence. I think you're on to a good format.

Joanna Santa Barbara

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Hi Joanna,

I'm so glad you said that! This is one of the things I was hoping for, that this kind of format would increase comprehension and retention. We know that people learn in different ways, some verbally, some visually, etc. By mixing media in the right way, we can make the material useful to as many people as possible.

cheers,
rkm

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Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:57:29 -0700
From: Bo Filter <>
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
To: cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net
Hi Richard,

You're on the right track... your menu is well written and providing short clips provide answers to questioners plagued by a specific issues. That said resources are needed for anyone to go anywhere with them. For instance, the clip on what hit the first tower mentions a broadcaster. We need his name and we need to know who he was interviewing. Without specifics, conspiracy buff critics have a field day.
Keep up the good work.

Bo Filter

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Hi Bo,

I definitely agree with you about providing background info on the presenters. I don't want to bother with that research with the 9/11 Story, as that's not my real topic. For my real online documentary, where I'll be interviewing people, I'll begin each interview by asking the person about themself and their credentials, and then I'll begin exploring topics with them. I'll edit the introductory part into an "About X" clip and put it at the top, in a "Meet the experts" section.

rkm

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From: "Peter Hollings" <>
To: "'Richard Moore'" <rkm@quaylargo.com>
Subject: RE: Zeitgeist the Movie
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:46:49 -0400
Organization: Institute for Professionals in Taxation

       rkm> "Instead of being a linear experience, a documentary
        becomes a place you visit, a place that is clearly mapped
        out so you can explore it in your own way."

Richard --

That triggered the thought that you might use the videos as a jumping off point for discussion and networking in an online community formed around the issues and actions prompted by the subject matter.

Peter

------

Hi Peter,

Good idea!  This is one reason I moved to Blogger, to enable comments. But of course that's only a tiny first step toward your online community vision.

cheers,
rkm

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From: "Claudia Rice" <>
To: "rkm" <rkm@quaylargo.com>
Subject: Fw: story of 9-11
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:01:40 -1000

maybe a little more than you asked for? <g>
 
a friends reaction below:
 
       "It's not really one documentary ... there are five ... and
        the first one -  a youtubrrrrrr - didn't come up ... and how
        long is each one of these clips? damn ... I hate that the
        descriptions that send you clicking don't tell you how long
        the damn thing is ... so you can make time for it. so rude.
        bastards."

------

Hi Claudia,

Thanks for passing on the comments. On Blogger, he (sounds like a guy to me) could have commented directly, and might have been more polite. I put in the times as requested.

rkm

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Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 08:55:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Klausmann <>
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
To: cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net
Hi Richard. I thought that your video creation was pretty good, you certainly hit most of the main points. Its harder to judge because the material is not your own, of course. I recall that you mentioned that there was a debate about whether or not to have a narrator for the documentary, and that you thought it would help to have a big name star. I agree with you on this for two main reasons. First, concise and well-written narration is essential for moving the "plot" along without having to resort to lengthy scenes whose sole purpose is to get everyone in the audience to get the point. Second, my local theatre that shows independent/foreign films always has the biggest name actor/director above the movie title on all their signs, and this makes sense because most independent movies don't have much ads, so its important for people to at least recognize a name they generally associate with quality productions.
Best of luck,
Leo Klausmann

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Hi Leo,

I definitely agree about the value of a 'name star' narrator for attracting viewers to a film documentary. The situation is different in this online approach, where the 'narration' is provided by the text. Perhaps I could include clips of name stars commenting on the online version.

rkm

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Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:04:42 -0700
From: Larry Victor <>
To:  cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: Zeitgeist the Movie
I didn't get to sleep until 2am last night, as I was fixated on the three video sequences.  Not so much new info, but the presentation was crisper. I have a problem accepting that all the characters in Program 1 were born on Dec 25 - and some of the other data.  At some point I decided it was propaganda fiction, but later reversed my opinion.

Richard, I agree with your idea of thumbnail, as an initial improvement.  My early goal is a video hyperweb. As a video plays, the bar that moves showing time is expanded to show where links are.  A pause and select can give a list of all comments/links (text, audio, video, graphic) for that point. One can return to the original video or surf. One could also pause and add a comment.  Rating systems would improve the access.  Are you aware of any system that does this now?
There is SO MUCH quality material in cyberspace, that we need to create means of attracting attention, expanding access, and encouraging participation. Creating new material is necessary - but finding ways of breaking down the barriers of attention and access are equally critical.  We already have enough material for the "text/video curriculum" for an educational program for humankind - what we need now is a delivery system, that is more than interactive, but also assertive and participatory.

Another troublesome thought.  What would be the consequences if "Zeitgeist" were placed on YouTube and somehow everyone with access viewed it?  Information that may shatter a persons deeply engrained worldview may need elaborate follow-up to seaf positive change.  We also need to consider how people with different cognitive systems and worldviews will experience (and respond to) a simple viewing of "Zeitgeist".

Larry

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Hi Larry,

I can see you've put considerable thought into this kind of thing. Your points about attention, access, differing cognitive systems, and follow-up are well taken. As regards 'cognitive systems', it might make sense to have different versions of a documentary, drawing on the same clips, but using differing terminology.

I don't know how one could combine links with video sliders, but I suppose you could accomplish almost the same thing by having a button for "further details" that goes to a page of annotated clips.

By the way, thanks for being the first volunteer of hooking up for a video chat. :-)

rkm

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Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:14:24 -0700
From: Larry Victor <>
To:  cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
Richard.  A very impressive format.  What was nice, but somewhat confusing, was that after the video played on YouTube, there were a selection of other videos that were more than the set in your initial page.

This, as most info in cyberspace is interactive, but not participatory. What is needed to move people to do things WHILE THEY ARE VIEWING?

One option is to have questionnaires, of various formats, to assess for comprehension and to gather data.  Many people enjoy sharing their view, even in multiple choice questions.  Some questions could be followed by another set of video clips as background.

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Hi again,

The 'selection of other videos' is a YouTube trick to get people to explore more of YouTube. For the time being I don't mind...a small price to pay for their free service. Eventually, I may move to a different video-hosting service where I have more control over such things.

I agree with you (and Peter, above) about providing avenues for viewer participation. Blogger comments are a first step, and I'll be adding more as we go along. This whole process  will be evolutionary. Feedback along the way will of course be welcome.

rkm

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To: cyberjournal@yahoogroups.com
From: "Alan C. James" <>
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:15:41 -0700
Subject: Re:Experimental documentary ready for comment...

Hi, Richard,
Your technique presents a clear storyboard. I found it sufficient to see the stills and read the text to get an appreciation of the experiment. I think it would be a great way for collaboration, too, as when you had a gap to be filled, you could ask for footage from others and they could see where their material would fit.

Here's an article about food which might have material you can use for your documentary:

"Seeds of debt sow suicide in India"
Drinking pesticides preferred method of self-induced death for distraught cotton farmers
< http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070706.windia0607/EmailBNStory/Front/home >
...Alan

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Hi Alan,

Good idea, re/collaboration. Particularly for a documentary on global issues, people could gather footage in their own areas and send it in. If I'm doing a remote interview, there might be local camera person available who could get better images than I can get off my screen. A benefit of the clip approach is that the style of the clips can differ, and we don't need to create transitions between scenes.

And thanks for the material on India!  Definitely an important angle on the food-crisis issue.

rkm

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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:55:07 +1200
From: "Robert Gregory" <>
To: "Richard Moore" <rkm@quaylargo.com>
Subject: of interest re film

http://freedocumentaries.org/
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Hi Robert,

Thanks for the link. Good material there.

rkm

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From: Bill Ellis <>
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 07:03:15 -0400
To: cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net

I viewed the document "The Myths of 9/11."

A good summary of the stories we like to believe.

You missed one of the best.  The hole in the Pentagon was not big enough for the plane that was meant to have made it.
I'm sure these myths will life on and be conversation pieces for ages to come.  Your documentary should be an important piece of the folklore.  But I see little chance for any action on any of them from the people who count.

My commentary
Bill Ellis

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Hi Bill,

You're right, this sample mini-doc only touches the tip of the iceberg re/ 911. I won't be developing this content further as there are so many good docs on 9/11. But when I do the real doc, I'll be making it as complete as possible. This kind of format enables the total clip-length to be much longer than a DVD, but people can  see just the parts they want, and they take it in incrementally.

rkm

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Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:05:50 +0800
To: cyberjournal@lists.riseup.net
From: Betty Daly-King <>
Subject: Re: Experimental documentary ready for comment...
Well done, good formats.  Personally I knew 2 years before hand that USA Government would stage a cataclysmic event for purposes of civil liberties erosion and knew 9/11 was engineered by Govt. right from day one!
Betty Daly-King

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Hi Betty,

Yes, on the day I mentioned to a Christian friend of mine, "It was probably the government", to which she replied "Don't even go there."

rkm


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